Knife Part 2 Hoodwinking & Bamboozling by Karen Hill & Jennifer Williams
You and I are going on a trip. A trip that starts with a brief view of the mass Hoodwinking and Bamboozling of America, then progresses to a possible dirty underhanded political power play. A political tug of war in which you are the prize. You may find out the game that is being played may not be the game you thought you were playing.
Winkipedia definition CLICK HERE
conscious mind, but in certain situations can affect the subconscious or deeper mind and later actions or attitudes.According to Wikipedia: A subliminal message is a signal or message embedded in another medium, designed to pass below the normal limits of perception. These messages are unrecognizable by the
Subliminal techniques have occasionally been used in advertising and propaganda; the purpose, the effectiveness, and the frequency of the application of such techniques is debated.
In 1974 the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued an order saying that broadcast outlets that knowingly carry subliminal ads are operating "contrary to the public interest." In September 2000, Senators Ron Wyden of Oregon and John Breaux of Louisiana complained to the FCC about a Republican ad that flashed the word ''RATS'' (or "BUREAUCRATS") across the screen for 1/30 of a second. ''We have reason to believe that broadcasters are airing television advertisements that contain subliminal messages in violation of the public interest,'' they said,
*You are going to need to keep this in mind while viewing the below information and images. NO VOLUME TURN YOUR VOLUME OFF, you do not absorb information or view it them same way when combining sound and picture.
*You are going to need to keep this in mind while viewing the below information and images. NO VOLUME TURN YOUR VOLUME OFF, you do not absorb information or view it them same way when combining sound and picture.
The Obama Ballet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDmasopEXao
The
first 3 minutes NO VOLUME TURN YOUR VOLUME OFF and watch the O'bama Ballet such coordination such timing the signs rise up the signs go down the signs rise up the signs go down WHAT A SHOW!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI3FLN1t8j0
NO VOLUME!! TURN YOUR VOLUME OFF Stop the above video at the following locations
at 00:40 look at the crowd behind Barack Obama look over HIS right shoulder (your left side of screen) What are they looking at?
00:57 see the woman scratching her nose, look at her shirt it is the messiah shirt on your left, t-shirt that says "Change" and has a profile of BO with a neon halo. Again, what are they looking at? Is it a screen? If it is see if you ever a screen shown through out this video.
2:11 this is just a media trick used to make someone appear larger than life as if they "tower" over you. It is an photography angle used to subliminally shape your opinion.
at 10:19 this type of photography shot is used to shape your opinion in reference to what types of people support this speaker.
at 10:23 What are they looking at? I have not seen a screen of any kind yet. Take note one more time of the lady with the messiah t-shirt.
at 10:38 someone new is entering the picture take note of what he has in his hands.
at 10:52 he had nothing in his hands but his cap, now he is bending down.
at 11:06 what does he have now? Did you see him speak to someone? What is he blocking now? A messiah t-shirt.
at 18:11 man on your right (next to yellow sleeve) turns to look up at something, but I do not know what.
at 18:36 look at the man in the striped shirt that just came in not long ago, he certainly doesn’t seem all that interested. Is he just standing in to block something?
at 18:47 striped shirt man, wow compare his vibrant enthusiasm compared to those around him. READ before continuing. Stop it again at 19:23 when you stop it at 19:23, look quickly between the two heads and you will see blue. DONT concentrate on it just glance and then tell you self the 1st thing that comes to your mind that it might say, what word it might be. Please make sure you understand this before you go through it.
20:17 messiah shirt on your left, t-shirt that says "Change" and has a profile of BO with a neon halo
Now you may think I am fixated on this t-shirt. You are wrong. The first time I had to sit through this horrible video I did not notice it. Later, one of the media people who has been going through these videos with me showed me a photo of the shirt. I recognized the t-shirt, although I had not to my knowledge seen it anywhere before. I no longer question the effects of subliminal messaging. Don't think this is the only point to this shirt or the man that was used as a stand in that was placed in front of the shirt to block it.
Same Rule,
NO VOLUME; however this time stop the video at 1:30 and do NOT read anything I have written below the video until you stop it at 1:30. This is a Barack Obama commercial and it is so loaded with advertising subliminal messages it takes approx a hour to start and stop it and go through them all, so I decided to blow that off and go straight for the bang. Stop the video at 1:30 and look at the what is on your screen. Then read what I have written below the video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNYgDBne5cA
The scrolling marquee. Some will attempt to dismiss this as coincidental, but they will be wrong. There are NO missed tricks in any of this video, not a single slogan placement not a single word un bolded, nothing in this video is by accident or coincidnece. The scrolling marquee is reading and your mind and everyone who glimpses YES GLIMPSES it registers "Can believeth" Was this scrolling over and over during Barack Obama's speech?
Ok, take a moment. We all thought Change and Hope were the messages and its true they are. There is the more powerful underlying subliminal message. "Believe". Its on almost every sign, its in every slogan, he is the messiah, "believe" have faith "believe". One of our volunteers a college student made the video below, it is short. At the time he made this video for youtube, I did not realize the true significance of this young mans statement.
TURN YOUR VOLUME ON THE MUSIC IS SIGNIFICANT, oh by the way we are not done yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLw0yS_abNM
We hope you enjoyed our volunteers little video/statement. We have gone through hours and hours of these videos. These videos are moment by moment product placement and Barack Obama is the product and you are the customer. Are you buying? Quite a few of us have not been buying it. Like allot of media campaigns the gloss is beginning to wear off. A fad is after all a fad.
Recently we all witnessed a Barack Obama subliminal message slap him and his campaign in the face. The Presidential/Obama Seal. The news was not supposed to pick up on that subliminal message. You were not supposed to pick up on that subliminal message. You were supposed to register him and his appearance in a presidential light, subconsciously. So Axelrod and Obama and so many others are attempting to sell us the new religion product.....Barack Obama. That is the Bamboozling of American. You may now be asking what about the Hoodwinking? Well, although Barack Obama has graced us with enough media bullshit to keep advertising students busy for years to come and there can be no doubt what he and his campaign stand for is revolting. There are some allegations surfacing of a Karl Rovian style hoodwinking. This hoodwinking, should it prove true, is more an intentional using and further abusing of Hillary Clinton supporters. Many of us give hours and hours and money and money in our attempts to get the WINNING DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTAL CANDIDATE to the convention and put enough pressure on the elected officials whom are super delegates that are not representing the will and votes of their constituents. We give of ourselves on so many levels to find the possibility we are being toyed with like a cat with a mouse, infuriates me.
I have wrestled with some of this information for sometime now. In part because I have been receiving some of it piece by piece. In part because personally I feel its may very well be true. It is for you to decide. Due to a confluence of recent events I have decided it is no longer mine to wrestle with. I will give you the majority of the information I have with a word of warning. I have been told there is much more information out there and people are looking into this from several sides of this political game. Each with their own intentions of how best to exploit it to their benefit. Unfortunately should this be true and it not change immediately. Much will have been lost and Barack Obama will prance away making us all look the fools.
The Hoodwinking.........Clinton Supporters Used and Further Abused
There is a new phenomenon taking place, and it both scares and troubles me deeply.
Supporters for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton have been lulled into utter silence and inaction. What started as a national movement (18 million strong, if I recall correctly) to make sure that every vote cast in MI and FL was fully counted, and ultimately get Senator Clinton on the ballot in November, or at the very least get a roll call vote at the DNC convention in Denver, has morphed into a full fledged campaign to elect Senator John McCain.
Did we somehow forget that Senator Clinton only suspended her campaign? She did not concede and release her delegates to Barack Obama, as Taylor Marsh mistakenly reported. Yes, she "introduced him" to her donors, and she has "appeared" on the campaign trail with Barack Obama lately, but you would too, if you were being "strong armed" behind the scenes to "unify" or else. YOU heard Senator Clinton "ask" her supporters to support Senator Obama. Now "ask" yourself these three questions:
1) Are you planning on donating money to Senator Obama’s campaign?
2) Are you planning on voting for Senator Obama, if he is the democratic nominee?
3) Do you honestly believe that all 18 million Clinton supporters are going to vote for Sen. Obama too?
If you answered "no" to these questions, then why have you abandoned your beliefs, and stopped fighting for True Democracy and Senator Clinton? Have you also forgotten that Senator Obama is only the "presumptive nominee"? Why do you think that Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are trying to "block" a "roll call vote" at the Denver convention? If the party was SOLIDLY behind Obama, why block the "roll call vote"?
Historically losing candidates always have their names put into nomination, give a great speech and then there is a roll call vote. The presumptive nominee gets the majority and then there may be a call to make it unanimous. To suggest something other than that, is not only un-American, it further reeks of the "anti democratic process" of the DNC’s
not fully counting every vote, and the sexism and misogyny that the DNC has perpetuated against Senator Clinton and allowed the mainstream media to perpetuate also.
Did we also assume that the same DNC that stripped MI & FL of full representation, coerced Super-delegates to get in line and publicly support Senator Obama or lose DNC support and money when it is time for re-election, the same DNC that is trying to block a roll call vote in Denver could not possibly be using the same dirty tactics against my beloved Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton? And I say "my beloved" because I do not see much evidence of "our beloved" Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton right now:
Groups like Will Bower’s P.U.M.A., Cynthia Ruccia’s Women for Fair Politics, and some of the leaders/founders of the "Just Say No Deal Coalition" (who amongst them are "coincidently" also Will Bower, Christi Adkins, and Cynthia Ruccia) are being DIRECTED by, and have received resources from the Republican Party machine and Senator John McCain’s Campaign. Barack Obama has not received the democratic nomination thus far; yet these groups have already joined the McCain Campaign, and are enthusiastically "urging" other "Just Say No Deal Coalition" members to do the same. They have abandoned the fight for DNC Reform and the fight for Senator Clinton. They are misdirecting support to Senator McCain by taking advantage of the passion and disappointment of the supporters for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. They have managed to polarize and stagnate the movement, and change the original messages of the movement from "Every Vote Must be Counted" and "Sexism and Misogyny Hurts Both Men and Women" to "Democratic Women for McCain".
For those of you who may be skeptical of these allegations: in addition to recent meetings with high level surrogates from the McCain Campaign( including but not limited to Carly Fiorina), Christi Adkins is married to Burke Allen (of the Republican media powerhouse Allen Media Strategies), and during a recent private teleconference of PUMA/Just Say No Deal leaders, Marilu Socher (of "Women For Fair Politics") stated that " she had just gotten out of a meeting with the McCain people" and some of the topics discussed were "how to funnel money" to the "Just Say No Deal"
Coalition, and she also announced that PUMA/ Just Say No Deal will now be represented by the "very Republican" Taft Law Firm, and she further stated that the "McCain people" also informed her that "Hillary has no chance", and they need to put their efforts towards electing McCain. Quite frankly, I smell a "rat" in our house, and it must be eliminated immediately.*I challenge PUMA/Just Say No Deal/Women For Fair Politics to make public the recording that was made of the teleconference that occured at 4pm on 6/29/2008 call in number was 641-715-3300 code was #576807 this was added at the request of this guest poster added at 1:14am 7/3/2008
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1784377/posts Burke Allen (PUMA/JSND Just Say No Deal Media Strategist) Loves Democrat Slayers
"Rightalk with Teri O'Brien" Tue LIVE Thread - 8-11pm ect. Mon-Fri! 2 Chicks eviscerating the dims! Righttalk with Teri O'Bien' Join Teri "Americans Warrior Princess" and co-host Lynn Davis "Right Wing Ninja Queen" "I think America will love Teri O'Brian and Lynn Davis. Two edgy conservative women dishing it to the left. Burke Allen Media.
http://www.shoutlife.com/CMRadio Burke Allen (PUMA/JSND Just Say No Deal Media Strategist)"The Voice of Christian Music Radio" "Burke is a seasoned professional in the radio industry, and without his knowledge, experience and melodious tones, we would not have been able to pull this off. Not only is Burke a real radio consultant, but he also owns his own radio station. His contacts in the industry, and his graciousness and willingness to use those resources to help CMR, have been a godsend. Not only has Burke been a blessing to CMR, but he has become a good friend." Will he really be Hillary's good friend too?
http://www.hightechministries.org/involved.asp Burke Allen (PUMA/JSND Just Say No Deal Media Strategist) Member "High Tech Ministries" It also appears he is affiliated or was affiliated with Novologic Inc. Will he really be Hillary's good friend? What is Burke Allen's real agenda?
http://www.allenmediastrategies.com/ Burke Allen (PUMA/JSND Just Say No Deal Media Strategist) Media Strategist Home Page)
http://www.southernvoice.com/2008/6-20/news/national/8716.cfm
Will Bower "Huffington Post Columnist" when did he join Huffington/Soros/Obama? Where are his articles I only found 2 short nothing comments? Where things scrubbed?
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/13/a-clinton-backer-turns-to-mccain/
Will Bower founder Just Say No Deal "Obama will be crowned Democratic Nominee" this is the same type of things these "founders" are saying in their private teleconferences. When they have group conferences its all pro Hillary. (note the lower case pro)
http://willbower.newsvine.com/_news/2008/03/12/1360872-there-shant-be-blood-
*Read some early comments by Will Bower, not very Clinton supporting rather more Gore/Obama
We must "Just Say YES" to Senator Clinton again…It is time for the "Real Clinton Supporters" to stand up for TRUE DEMOCRACY and work to insure that "Every Vote Is Counted" and stand up for DNC REFORM, by telling Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid that we will not sit idly by and allow them to nominate Senator Barack Obama. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is the only candidate that can beat Senator John McCain in November. The DNC knows that Senator Obama will lose, but they "love all of the money that he brought to the party", and they are counting on "down ticket" Democratic wins in the House & Senate to make the impending McCain presidency ineffective. We must keep the pressure on the Super-delegates, and demand a roll call vote at the Denver Convention, and if necessary vote all of the super delegates that went against the will of 18 million voters by supporting Senator Barack Obamaout of office in November too.
I am unwavering in my support for Senator
Hillary Rodham Clinton, and I hope that all of those who still support her, will truly galvanize their efforts, in order to make Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton the next President of the US.Sincerely,
Jennifer T. Williams
underground4hillary@gmail.com
Underground 4 Hillary
Wow I just got to the end of the 2nd video and you are absolutely right. I would like to add a few of my own observations though. At 0211 the crowd has been removed from behind Obama or this was shot at a different speech. at 1052 when the campaign worker bends down to get the sign being handed to him he is also handed a note pad to read. At 2002 it appears to show a shot of more campaign workers [one is even wearing his I.D. around his neck] they are at a segregation point between blacks and whites [and I get called racist?] At 2245 you can see a little bit of what apears to be a large T.V. prompting people. At 2443 it cuts to someone trying to watch a prompter nonchelontly. And at 2529, [this is the best], this shot isn't even at the same place, all of a sudden there is no one behind him there are more banners on the balconies and no flag behind him, proof of this is at 2754 when the camera moves back you see a flag, people are closer to him and less banners on the balconies, it even looks like a differant podium than at 2529. Last at the end suddenly there are 2 balconies with scrolling words that we havent seen untill just at the end, this looks spliced in to me also.
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I smell a rat too... I checked HuffPo a few days ago, when I was asked to join PUMA, and I wanted to know who Will Bower was. There was nothing there, I only saw 2 articles. Today there are a whole bunch of posts. It looks like HuffPo is trying to cover up who Will Bower really is. I think he's an OBAMA TROLL working as a DOUBLE AGENT against McCain & Hillary(who else could "doctor" HuffPo so quickly?)
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I'm the Will Bower in question here.
I've only been with the Huffington Post for a few months, and have written *seven* (not "two") articles for them.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/will-bower
Please read them and then tell me whether or not you think I support Obama.
As for Gore -- That article was a proposal to prevent an intra-party civil war. And look at what we have on our hands now? Was it such a bad idea? I'm much less a fan of Gore now than I was when I wrote it... but, at the time, it seemed like a way to prevent the situation in which we now find ourselves.
As for getting support and/or being directed by McCain... I haven't received a dime and/or direction from -anyone-. Please back up your accusations with some actual facts.
By the way... How can I be both an Obama plant AND a McCain plant. That would be pretty amazing to pull off.
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http://preview.tinyurl.com/6qnq4d
There is a short passage in the Declaration of Independence which should inspire all PUMAs to keep on fighting!
It fits the present situation perfectly!
IN THE MEANTIME...
This Hillary supporter will be on "Blog Bunker" on the Sirius Satellite Radio channel Indie Talk on Friday, June 11 at 5:30 PM ET. (with later repeat and one the next day.)
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Mr.Bower, I did not post this without verifing the links and some information that was not included. The articles that were JUST RECENTLY ADDED to Huffington came from Newsvine.
Jennifer Williams wrote this part of the piece she CLEARLY calls for the release of the tape which was made of the teleconference you participated in that began at 4pm Sunday June 29th. I too "participated" in that teleconference and I do know it was stated quite clearly where the direction was coming from. I am also aware Jennifer participated via another individual by means of a 2nd phone line. The "Shant Be Blood" piece you wrote is in NO WAY supportive of Hillary Clinton in March 2008 it was rather supportive of Obama and Gore. The supposition of your associations do not come from me, although I agree with them. These suppositions are coming from much higher up the chain than me. My cursory understanding is you are an integral part of discrediting this 'movement' after the convention on behalf of Obama. In other words, to reveal that the RNC has been directing some of the leaders of some of these groups. This is not my supposition this is others and they do have more information than I. Since you are demanding so much. Why don't you release the tape Mr.Bower. I was on that conference call and I know what was said, which is one of the reasons I was willing to publish this piece and there were others in that call Mr.Bower. {Steered to the republican law firm Taft, meetings with the McCain campaign in which representatives of these groups are told "Hillary has no chance" and efforts should be geared toward McCain.} Personally, I find that offensive and a BLATANT LIE. I have spoken to Hillary loyal super delegates and that is NOT WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD. Mr. Bower I am not interested in 15 minutes of fame nor destroying anything I am ONLY INTERESTED IN PRESSURING SUPER DELEGATES WHO ARE NOT VOTING PER THE WILL OF THEIR VOTERS TO VOTE PER THE WILL OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS AT THE CONVENTION. Now, having said that Mr.Bower what is it you are interested in? Because your actions speak otherwise. You are involved in so many groups you can have literally no effect other than just keeping people busy. The dinner conversation I had last night with a elected GENUINE Hillary Clinton supporter reaffirmed quite a bit of this information. I have been told that this is all being investigated by some major media outlets. I posted this on behalf of this individual as a means of giving others the information before it is too late and let them decide for themselves.
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Anny,(Grl) I seek to harm no one, the truth is the truth. Why dont you ask the questions:Who is their law firm? What was said to Mary Lou S. by the McCain Campaign? Will they release the real recording of that conference call? There are audio experts that would be happy to go over it to make sure it was not altered. Why do you attack me with this instead of actually asking the questions? Do fear the truth.
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I know Will Bower. We volunteered together at Hillary Headquarters in Arlington, VA during the primary. I know Paulie Abeles, as we also met while volunteering for Hillary. I know it's hard for people who aren't immediately connected to the people who are organizing, but I can absolutely 100% assure you that they are alll dedicated HRC supporters who are doing this because they want HRC to be the nominee. Who am I, right? I have been hearing so many conspiracy theories lately that I am starting to worry that instead of unifying, we are dividing unnecessarily. We all want HRC for our nominee and I hope you'll trust that PUMA was started for that reason and that reason only. Also, we asked JSND (Will, Cynthia, Maria, Diane) if they are receiving Republican money and they all assured that they are absolutley NOT taking money from any campaign. They are in the process of starting a 521 PAC in order to raise money for their new initiative of getting snail mail flyers sent and organizing nationwide. Please keep the faith and don't allow conspiracy theories to divide us-leave that to the Obama campaign (and the McCain people for that matter).
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Karen.
I did not organize that phone call and do not have a tape of it. If you were on that call, you'll remember that I didn't attend most of it. I was there for the first 15 minutes and for the last 10 minutes. Also, if you were on the call, you'll know who -did- organize it. If you want a tape of that call (if one exists), you should ask -that- person for it.
As for my articles at Huffington, each of them was posted the same day that they were written. Any of you can contact the editors of The Huffington Post's "Off the Bus" and ask them for proof.
In fact, I still have all the emails -- time-stamped at that -- in which I submitted each of those articles to those same editors. If you give me an email address, I can forward them to you. You'll see that the dates on the emails correspond with the dates of the articles.
Like you, I too, am fully interested in having Hillary nominated at Convention. In fact, stay tuned... and you'll see that my next article (not to be published on Huffington, but, rather on my own site) is going to be about how we can do exactly that.
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Mr.Bower, my email is always available. karen@unheardamericanvoices.com, I would love a copy of those if I have permission to give them to 'Jennifer Williams'. You see Mr.Bower I did not write the letter and I believe she provided her email address. Yes I was on the conference call. I do not recall your early departure although I will not deny it either because I do not remember hearing you leave but that doesnt mean it did not happen either. That is information that should be available from the conference call company log. I do recall the issue with the radio "shows" and your joining another effort, although it seemed minor. Further it was not my call I dont have to go looking for anyone to provide anything, they are welcome to do so at anytime. I have people who will happily go over the recording, as it is a digital recording, to verify it has not been altered. For everyones peace of mind. Do you deny what Marylou, Women For Fair Politics, said? The Taft Law Firm? Meeting with the McCain campaign? Funneling money to JSND? No chance for Hillary, insinuated per the McCain campaign? The call was about "being on the same page before you talk to the group"? These are just some of the things I remember. I dont know what she remembers or if she recorded it. We have not discussed that. Try emailing her Mr.Bower.
I look forward to this idea Mr.Bower, Lets hope its something new and different & innovative and in support of the candidate that won the primary, I would hate to see a rehash of something previously proposed with lots of graphics.
Karen
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Steph, It sounds like Mr.Bower has a good friend in you. He is a very lucky man and it sounds like he has done some excellent things. I personally have some questions though. He is head or one of the heads of many of these groups and many more he is part of. Considering that here are some direct quotes from emails from some of these groups leaders.......
1. "It will be at 4 PM EST prior to the main conf. call to ensure we are on the same page before we report to the group." This was in an email NOT sent to the entire group.
You should ask why they felt the need to be on the same page? Because the two conferences were like night and day, politically speaking.
2. "There is good news from both parties, and this will be a very positive call, we want everyone to get a chance to speak and we want to introduce a Justsayno deal radio show and tv show that will be coming out." This is what was at the base of the same email that was sent to the group.
3. "WE all are working toward the same thing...yet a certain sensitivity to the voters who aren't on the McCain protest vote yet will be scared away too quickly if we push that option above all others" from one "leader" to other "leaders" of the above mentioned groups"
4. "I will not be attacked for putting its best interest before Clintons4McCain, Nobama Network, Cristi Adkins or anyone else who is less than transparent. If you need me to elaborate, I will happily do so, but that may not be fair to Cristi." quote from one group leader to several other group "leaders" of the above mentioned groups
5. "When can we all meet before this gets out of the hand, hits the media and ruins all the efforts we worked hard for." from one "leader" to other "leaders" of the above mentioned groups, several days before this letter was posted and as far as I know has nothing to do with this letter.
6."The busy work that is not on target is trying to reform the Party. Or going to Denver and trying to win a nomination that is long gone" The most part "is going to accomplish little to nothing" is a response to my complaint that real efforts that would not make a difference were being done but nothing that would make a difference, save the electability watch & some local groups, was being done to make a difference BEFORE THE CONVENTION. This makes no sense at all. Not to mention the constant ever present McCain push. Also it is an admission that this individual believes all efforts for Sen. Clinton are useless. I am out of room or there would be much more.
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Quite frankly Karen with all that we have to do to ensure that HRC is our nominee in August, I can't figure out why you are asking for evedentiary information with documents, emails, video to essentially prove that Will, Cristi Adkins and Ruccia are HRC supporters. This is so counterproductive to the mission of what we're doing. Instead of focusing on outreach and getting the message about Obama to the public, you're asking these people to instead spend their time proving to you that they are supporting HRC. It seems really absurd to me. I think you're losing sight of the big picture here. Cristi Adkins has never been coy about her position. She is self proclaimed independent voter. She is not part of the Democratic party, but is an avid HRC supporter. It is her hope that HRC becomes the nominee, however, should that not happen, she will support McCain. Will is part of a group that encompasses people who have one thing and one thing only in common and that is that they support HRC and want her to be the nominee. Because we are democrats and because this scenario is so out of the norm, what we will do should HRC not be our nominee is not a unified decision at this point. There are so many different schools of thought that the best thing we can do now is stay unified on the message that HRC should be our nominee and we will work toward helping her win in Denver. It's not a bad thing to have people threatening to support McCain in the General if it's Obama on the ticket. What the DNC hears is one group saying they'll vote McCain, another saying they won't vote at all and others saying they'll try to write her in. The overall underlying and OBVIOUS message is that we are supporters of HRC and therefore, want HRC to be our nominee. That is the only thing that is absolutely not in question here-what we'll do if she's not our nominee is where we start to divide. Please stop trying to sabotage PUMA and the people who have given up their lives essentially to work for HRC in Denver. These are people who either do work or used to work who are sacrificing their time in order to help the cause. Will has done so much for this movement so far. He is getting it out into the public. He left his job in order to do this. How you think he could possibly be an Obama supporter is beyond me. He is not a McCain supporter, he is an HRC supporter. However, if she's not on the ticket, then he'll do whatever he has to just like we all will. It helps HRC to have the DNC aware that we're out here and that we are all going to do something else besides vote Obama if it's Obama on the ticket. I can't understand why you are fighting that or why you think that Will owes you anything in terms of proof that he is on HRC's side. I don't mean anything against you personally, but it seems like you are more concerned with your own agenda right now than actually helping HRC win in Denver. I want will to focus on helping HRC, not wasting time responding to you
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Karen.
Firstly, the 4pm conference call of which you speak was created by a member -within- the coalition, and -not- by the coalition itself. You were no more or less involved than was I. Neither you or I asked for the creation of that call, yet you and I both attended it.
Secondly, "Just Say No Deal" has not accepted a single -dime- from -anyone-. Yes, members within the coalition -have- accepted money, but "Just Say NO DEAL" has had no part in that... nor have I as an individual.
I will happily forward to you my first few correspondences with the Huffington Post in regard to my first article with them, so that you can compare the time stamps and see that there has been no altering of anything. And you can share these emails with whomever you choose.
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Ps -- I've just emailed you my first email exchange with The Huffington Post.
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PPs --
You can also visit the FaceBook group I created on March 8, 2008 called "Proposal for 2012 Primaries":
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=10830012505
In it, you'll find time stamps which show that my involvement with the Huffington Post has been as I have described it.
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INCOME TAX
MCCAIN (no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
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Steph, YOU ARE WRONG.
1. Their efforts are NOT geared to doing a single thing that will effect the out come of Denver; and amongst themselves they will openly say that and have. They say the opposite when speaking to the "group"
2. Honesty is NEVER WRONG and their actions seem very dishonest. There is nothing save afew efforts, apart from these groups, to actually effect the outcome of Denver.
3. Puma/jsnd have become nothing but fronts for McCain, free advertising for McCain and a way to get democratic supporters for McCain.
4. Geez, you obviously know nothing about me or what I believe. I have openly stated I WILL NOT EVER VOTE FOR OBAMA. If it take McCain to get him out that is what I will do BUT Hillary at the convention can get him out SOONER, but almost everything being done is what is called "political busy work" and it will NOT pressure the DNC enough to help her. The electability watch is doing something, but we must do MORE! That means MORE THAN CAMPAIGNING FOR JOHN MCCAIN. Effective things to effect the outcome of the convention.
5. The DNC has hijacked us & our votes. You expect me to stand silently by & watch as people who really want to make a difference BEFORE Aug. get hijacked again? NO I WILL NOT THAT HAS BEEN THE ENTIRE PROBLEM.
6. Super delegates are too spineless to defend our votes. I believe in honesty and transparency and some of the things going on appear less than honest and less than transparent. Rather they seem to be taking advantage of peoples desire to be involved in making a difference and they are being redirected. *By the way this has already been admitted by someone in email.
7. I will stand up AGAINST lies just like I have been standing up against the DNC
8. I will stand up AGAINST deceit, just like I have been standing up AGAINST BObama.
9. I will NOT stand up for McCain because my party has not had its convention and does not have its nominee.
10. I will FIGHT for our rightful nominee. I will use any means to defend our votes that is truthful and honest and hard hitting.
11. I am NOT THE ONE WHO BELIEVES THE ONLY CHOICE IS OBAMA/MCCAIN. That is a coward afraid to actually make a difference with super delegates because that means NO ONE is going to be taking under the table RNC money while pretending to support a democratic candidate.
WHAT BS anyone knows once you take the money or services from the RNC strings are attached. CONSIDERING HILLARY WOULD KICK JOHN MCCAINS BUTT IF SHE WAS THE NOMINEE.
What is no one asking. What would the RNC gain if Hillary got the nomination? Whats in that for them? Keeping Hillary from taking the convention HELPS the republicans DUH! Some of these groups leaders are taking money & direction from people who have NO INTEREST IN facing Hillary in Sept-Nov!!
Seems some people are anxious to abandon one fight for another that doesnt even begin for sometime yet and leave your champion alone in the ring.
NOT ME.
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Mr.Bower, to me that sounds alot like plausible denyability, obama uses that alot. You know how he says " I did not say that" when in fact his campaign said it or when obama says he doesnt believe anything his church teaches or stands for when he sat there for 20+ years.
You know something else Mr.Bower. As a child growing up in the south there was this old saying.....if you lay down with dogs dont be surprised when you wake up with fleas. That would include Huffington post and your gore/obama comments,and involvement with people taking RNC money already, that is just my opinion.
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I will forward it all to 'Jennifer' as I am not the one looking into you or any of these people. But I will give you my opinions about it.
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pat,
actually obama has a hidden loop hole in his payroll tax, unless they have found it and closed it. So actually its much worse than that in the higher income brackets and the self employed higher income brackets. Honestly though I dont think tax is going to do it for McCain. That segment of the population that actually cares about taxes will not be voting for obama. But if the chart is correct & I have no reason to doubt it excellent presentation
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I am reading the things that you write and still can't figure out what your argument is against PUMA? You seem like an extremist in that you absolutely refuse to see all these groups fall under the same conclusion-that HRC would be the better nominee. I can't understand why you would ever draw the conclusion that PUMA wouldn't want HRC as our nominee? PUMA is the organization that has allowed our rejection of Obama to be made public. Don't you think that absolutely benefits HRC? The more that people know we're out here, the more likely they'll be to get on board, too. How is that a bad thing? Why do you want that to stop? It seems like you have one path that YOU personally want to take and if everyone else doesn't take that exact path, then you think they are wrong or that they don't share the same mission as you. I think you are wrong and I am concerned that your own personal issues are clouding the big picture here and potentially sabotaging the movement to have HRC walk as our nominee in Denver. I hope you'll check yourself before you let your own issues get in the way of what we all want and that's HRC as our President in January 2009. Please stop making issues that aren't there, as it's not helpful.
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I have been watching PUMA and JSND for a while now and all they actually seem interested in doing is lining their own pockets or certain members seeing themselves on t.v. with no desire to actually make a difference except for McCain. Karen is right if you actually support HRC it ain't over and wont be untill the convention. The most effective way of making a difference is to get super delegates fired. Full page adds in a newspaper are a stupid waste of money,they are expensive, last only one day and very few people will read them. PUMA and JSND are not the least bit interested in a strategy that sends a clear message to the people responsible for this mess, those people don't care if Obama is elected as long as they keep their cushy jobs and gain seats as a result of all this. The only people actually trying to do ANYTHING of substance is UAV/DNCReform and a few other groups who have been plowed under by the minor B.S. PUMA/JSND are spreading [ie blob radio/blog t.v.}. UAV is finally exposing PUMA/JSND as the frauds they are. As near as I can tell they are just a vanity project made to get money by defrauding the real Clinton supporters. As far as drawing attention no one is paying any to them because when they are on t.v. they make both groups seem like just a bunch of whiners who are not going to actually do anything. Now as for Will Bower a couple of days ago suddenly his articles on huf. went from 2 to 7 while I watched AND with mysterious time changes to boot. I don't know who he actually supports but I SMELL A RAT, A BIG RAT! ACTUALLY A WHOLE HEARD OF RATS!
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One more thing why should I believe anything you say Mr. Bergland It seems on the entire internet, I can find nothing to indicate you had anything to do with Clinton or even that you exist. What relivance is anything you have to say?
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Who I am is a person who volunteered at Hillary headquarters at least 3 or 4 times a week every single week since January. After getting off work, I went to headquarters and made calls. I also answered phones on the fourth floor when they needed me to do so. I also spent many of my Saturdays making calls and I have written hundreds of letter to superdelegates and to media outlets. I am committed to HRC and have done a lot more to work for her than complain on the internet. Furthermore, many of the people who are working under the umbrella of JSND and PUMA are also Hillary supporters who volunteered alongside me for the last several months. It's very difficult for me to read this kind of propaganda against them knowing what they have done for HRC and what they are continuing to do. None of us have given up on her. I know that I will be at headquarters tomorrow evening making calls to her donors to try to get her debt paid off and many of the people who are working with JSND will be there, too. Just because you don't know everyone personally or because they aren't doing things the way you want them to be done doesn't mean that they are Obama or McCain supporters. You just sound ridiculous and if you really care about HRC, then start acting like it and try to help versus sitting around complaining. That's the whole point, I don't care about you-no one does. We all care about HRC and I can't figure out why you would rather waste everyone's time complaining instead of actually helping. How is making allegations against PUMA helping Hillary? If you had volunteered more at the campaign, you might recognize some of the names of the people who are actually trying to help. By the way, you aren't going to find me on the internet because I'm no one special-just your average American who wants to see HRC become the president in 2009. Sorry that's not enough for you.
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Steph, I DID NOT WRITE THIS LETTER, I added my opinion. I am not an extremist of any kind I am a plain old democrat who has the courage to stand up when I see something I feel is wrong. As far as I understand from emails and comments made publicly puma and jsnd are joined or coalesced. As far as I am aware some of the same people are "leaders" of both puma/jsnd. The point is the advertising and efforts are counter productive to assisting in the obtaining of the nomination and are rather fully geared to keeping members busy until the convention,then the GOP/RNC gets what they want full bore for McCain until Obama pulls the rug out and exposes the republican directing of these groups and republican money. That is just not fair and just not right to people out there that want to make a difference. Standing up against that is called PRINCIPLES not extremism.
By the way, what would the gop/rnc want with Hillary getting the nomination. Answer NOTHING, they sure as shooting dont want to face Hillary in the general and anyone that thinks for one second that the republicans are going to fund helping Hillary, well I think they may want to rethink that.
As for your nasty little comment that I am sabotaging the movement your wrong. Lying to people about the agenda is what is sabotaging the movement directing media to make HRC supporters to look like empty headed whiners (except for 1 interview noted at bottom) who are nothing but bloggers that will do nothing else is what is sabotaging the movement. Oh and the new everbody is a star idea EVERYBODY SHOULD BE A STAR IN THEIR LOCAL AREA going against the up for re-election supers on local tv which then becomes national. Nationwide that movement would be MAKING REAL NOISE SHOWING REAL THREATS, but that is not what the gop wants is it? All of this useless media appears directed by a media company which is owned by one of these "leaders" husbands.
This is my understanding with a splash of my opinion.
You dont like what Jennifer wrote you dont like my personal opinions so you tell me to "check myself" because I talk about honesty and principles.
HELLO HELLO!! Those are the very things we are angry with our elected officials for lacking!
According to Will Bowers post above some of the leaders are taking money from the rnc/gop probably via this media company or via the pac.
Who? & How Much? Try some honesty with your groups members. Mr. Bergland, I do not seek any media, I have already turned it down. I do not seek to be anyones boss, I seek to assist Hillary Clinton in gaining the nomination she won. ANYONE who is doing something counter productive that could hurt Sen. Clinton or her supporters or something that can be seen as taking advantage of Hillary Clinton supporters, you bet I will stand up and speak my peace.
You dont like, I am ok with that.
*there was a fox interview with a woman representing these groups she had long dark hair she did an excellent job, just my opinion
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Karen, PUMA and JSND aren't my groups. I have purposely not joined any groups. I don't need to join a group to feel united and good about myself. However, I recognize that I am unique in that not all people would feel justified to keep fighting unless they knew that there were others who were doing so, too. It's that whole bandwagon concept. I'm not attempting to be nasty, but appreciate that you feel I am. I recognize at this point that having a rational discussion with you about this is a waste of time. You go on ahead and try to create conspiracy theories at every turn and I'll just continue to volunteer for HRC. I hope that your need to satisfy your own agenda doesn't harm HRC, as the more we divide, the more Obama wins. I agree that the RNC and McCain don't benefit from HRC on the ticket. However, who cares what the RNC and McCain want? There is no doubt that McCain knows that HRC supporters aren't considering him because they support his policies, but rather that they don't support Obama. I am confident that he recognizes that if HRC gets the nomination, all the people who are considering him now will not be considering him then. It's good for the DNC to be nervous about her supporters leaning toward McCain if it's not Hillary, as perhaps that will encourage them to support her in August. As far as HRC supporters using McCain and his services in order to create controversy for the DNC, again, how does that hurt HRC? Seems to me like the only people potentially losing here are Obama and the DNC and McCain and the RNC. Apparently you don't agree, but I can't figure out why you can't put two and two together. Honestly with your conspiracy theories, you sound like an Obama supporter. It's Obama supporters who have been saying that PUMA and JSND are really Republicans. I've never heard a really HRC supporter say that. I hope you are really an HRC supporter and not just an Obama supporter trying to make controversy. Have you been volunteering at headquarters? I guess I'm getting skeptical now because I can't figure out why you are pushing this so hard.
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tay, I appreciate your defense and I know you are very supportive. I know you are doing your 18 super delegates with electability watch. I know how dedicated you are to Sen. Clinton. and quite a bit of what you say I do agree with but we really need to not have leaders of groups attacking supporters and I really dont want to see that happening.
They are going to attack me and maybe Jennifer, but you keep doing what your doing & STAY STRONG & STAY FOCUSED! I will find you a group in your area soon. check your email.
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Steph,
HELLO I did NOT write the letter.
No I dont volunteer at headquarters because I live in Michigan, the commute would be a killer.
1. If leaders of a group are not open & honest & transparent to the rank-in-file that is not right or fair.
2. Now how many member deserve to know who has been taking money from organizations that dont want to see their goals of winning the nomination achieved?
3. I am not seeing conspiracy theories. There have been questions asked. Some have also been answered very clearly in emails with one group leader, emails which were bcc's to approx 500 people or more.
4. Some of these group leaders who are directing efforts and funds do not believe there can be any effect on the out come of the convention and that all efforts should be directed toward McCain. I think the group members have a right to know that. I think these group members have a right to know if their efforts are going toward making a difference in the outcome of the convention and if so how.
I have had my fill of lies and liars. I have more than had my fill from the DNC of dishonestly and backstabbing. I have surpassed my point of tolerance with any type of hidden agenda, especially against HRC.
You sir, are not even willing to question who took what & how much or why are efforts directed away from super delegates that are up for re-election, why are efforts geared with such emphasis on only the convention and after nor are you willing to question any of the statements by these "leaders" copy and pasted ifurther up in responses? Knowledge of the politics being played and how to counter it is imperative.
Failing to provide genuine information about the power people are holding in the lower ticket candidates is negligent on the part of anyone leading a group who proclaims to be working to effect the nomination. Because sir, that is where ALL the power is. This information is not directly from me it is not from an everyday voter it is not from a delegate it is from higher up the food chain.
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Firstly, I will freely admit that, as of November 2007, my three favorite candidates were Hillary, Gore, and Biden.
I don't know if I will EVER get over Election 2000, so, when I wrote "There Shan't Be Blood", I was hoping to find a way to support both Hillary *and* Gore.
If you think that having Hillary as Senate Majority Leader and Obama as Vice President as prObama, then you and I have a very different take on those positions. In the late 1950s, LBJ was more powerful as Senate Majority Leader than Eisenhower was as president. Obama as Vice President would relegate him into a powerless position, and would give us eight years to replace him.
And, as I wrote before, my feelings on Gore has very much changed since I wrote that article. I no longer have the soft spot for him that I had when I wrote it.
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And, in regard to us not doing anything for Convention, please read my "PUMA Call to DNC Delegates".
http://www.puma08.com/2008/07/05/puma-call-to-dnc-delegates/
This was the piece I mentioned to you earlier that I had been working on.
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Mr.Bower,
What about your statement in reference to the money people are taking. Who is taking it? What money? From whom? How much?
Has this information been made openly available to the members of these "coalitions"
As for 'shant be blood' it is most assuredly pro Gore pro Obama, the piece indicates to the reader, Gore is the best candidate and he would then groom Obama for the presidency.
Sen.Majority Leader is in no way a minor position, especially if you are Power Hungry Pelosi. The office of the president is not the 1st agenda of her or the party.
Since you seem politically astute to some degree let me ask you a question. (That was not meant to sound condescending but it does, sorry I don't mean for it to sound that way) What was the message Clark & Carvile sent recently? With all your fingers in so many pies why are you not doing something about it? Or did you not get the message?
If you have not taken money generated from the gop/rnc, taken via another conduit, why are you associated with people who have? KNOWING there is no way the repub's wants to face Clinton in the general.
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Mr.Bower,
What was released was work already being don by others. It was a copy of the work of others.
I am aware of several sources of that information including drives directed at contacting the Supers and you must know THAT WILL NOT BE ENOUGH! For someone who is politically astute you should know that, which is another reason your actions leave some questioning, not to mention the duplication of efforts by others.
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Well, it’s either gonna be McCain/Palin or …
Barack Obama starring as “Change” the Gardener in remake of movie classic, “Being There”, starring Peter Sellers as “Chance” the Gardener!
*HT to hs commenting on
puma4palin.blogspot.com
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I'll say this one time and one time only.
When I find out who threw around my husbands name in this slander and who threw my name around in this slander, I will come at you with everything i've got.
Will Bower is not a spy and has taken NO money that I know of, and I called that Media meeting to spread good news and get everyone on the same page...BRANDING OBAMA.
Diane at JSND is volunteering her time and efforts to get Hillary in office and change Denver.
We, C4M, are fed up with democrats trashing each other and now independents too.
Anyone who has a recording of that call is more than welcome to share it...and if anyone ever uses my name again without full truths or my husbands name without full truths, I make this one promise.
YOU WILL DEAL WITH ME.
Cristi ADkins
Cristi@clintons4mccain.com
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Cristi Adkins,
I am sure you did not mean to indicate you were threatening anyone.
I posted a letter from someone whom I verified and I verified the links with the letter.
The links are quotes by your husband and or his company or posted comments about your husband and or his company. I did make sure they were valid links.
Since your husbands company was listed as responsible for the conference call, I believe you have access to a recording of the call.
Burke Allen was listed by the conference call company as responsible for the call. This too I verified prior to posting.
I did everything in my power to verify everything I could prior to posting this letter.
Will Bower stated freely that "some leaders had taken money" from sources previously mentioned.
You chose not to answer the money question nor the comments attributed to Burke Allen in reference to "The Right Wing Ninja Queen and The American Princess" 2 right wing zealot radio host nor the comments made within the conference call discussed.
I am not sure who your anger is directed at but I will email Jennifer Williams, the author of the letter, and mention you may want her response.
I am sure she will be happy to respond.
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Will thats it? The call to super delegates is, oh please change your vote? Thats all you have? How ineffective can you be? DNCReform wants to put them out of a job, many before the convention. They are saying,CHANGE YOUR VOTE OR ELSE! Something PUMA should be saying but they don't seem to actually be able to come up with anything on their own. They just steal ideas from others and find some ineffective way to appear to be doing something. Sure come Nov. they will want to do something like this and guess what it just so happens that it would help who? Oh yah thats right, THE REPUBLICANS.
as for Stephen
Its sad to say but hundreds of letter to super delegates and to media outlets don't matter. Yours, mine, and thousands of others have not been and will never be read by these super delegates. They wont listen to the very people that elected them and they wont listen to you or I. As for Denver Howard Dean has made sure any protester will be far away from ANY super delegates and by then it will already be too late. What they will, and do listen to are polls. "America the book" said it very well, on page 112 under "pollster a/k/a 'the sweaty buzzkill' No one will meet him. He does not exist, because you, as candidate, pay no attention to polls. Do not do anything untill you talk to him first". This is what they listen to the polls. If we Hillary supporters actually take only a few of them out it sends the message that we will leave the DNC short of their true goal of a veto proof majority. Maybe its time to re evaluate the people you are volunteering your time to, stop the busy work and actually make a difference.
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Cristi's response reaks of guilt. No one reacts like that if they are innocent. Her association there is just way too palpable for comfort: it's a clear and obvious conflict of interest which she should have been upfront and honest about from day 1.
For the first video, you kept asking about what the people kept looking up at is a jumbotron (scoreboard). It's probably a live feed of the same camera shot that the viewers get.
Not sure if you've seen this:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12956.htm
Read through carefully. Digest and disseminate. Hopefully you and others can put it to some good use.
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I'm sorry if I've disappointed some of you here for not doing all that you might have otherwise hoped for.
I am always open to hearing constructive criticism as to how I can better help the PUMA cause.
If you have such constructive criticism to give me, I invite you to contact me, and I will gladly hear it.
I will not, however, continue posting comments in this thread, as it appears that the nature of this thread is solely a destructive one.
I wish you well, and I hope you each find an effective outlet for channeling your passions into a positive outcome.
Will
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Great detective work once again Karen. I think that everyone reading this needs to consider that the Obama campaign has shown a long history of attacking and destroying their opponents. Before dismissing the possibility, consider the Obama track record, and consider who would have a motive. Karen has proven subliminal marketing techniques to exist in both the Clinton ads and now to the Obama campaign, promoting him and smearing her. This one should be a no brainer and call for an all out investigation. But, like Obama's photo shopped birth certificate and his proven connections to terrorism, this is one more element in the long list of Obama corruption that is currently getting swept under the rug. This is your country and there is power in numbers. We can't let this happen here. Karen needs your support.
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Rob, Excellent link, I have been receiving information on this for sometime. I am working on getting hold of a b.c. from Hawaii from the same time frame as obamas birth. Also digging into the Hawaii home birth regs.
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jason, thank you eloquent as always
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Keep fighting the good fight, Karen. Do not allow anyone to stop you from getting to the bottom of things.
There was a recent update on the link I provided for you:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12959.htm
-the more information you are armed with the stronger you will be.
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The original post is here:
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12932.htm
He was either born in Hawaii or he wasn't. It's proven now that the copy Obama's birth certificate posted on th eDaily Kos and on Obama's Fight the Smears website is a total forgery.
The question now is why hasn't Obama produced an authentic certificate of live birth or birth certificate. Being born in the U.S. is, of course, a constitutional requirement for the Presidency. The burden of proof falls on the candidates. McCain's case was settled in Congress via a Resolution last year. Now it's Obama's turn.
Obama is a slime ball and a pathological liar.
Demand that he satisfy the constitutional requirements for the Oval Office. But hey, Constitution shredding is what Obama's all about now isn't he...FISA...the DNC's own Charter...
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Rob,
You are correct to question the birth certificate and why did the Obama campaign produce this obviously false document to begin with. There is another question that seems to go along with it. Several weeks ago closer to a month or more, I received information that the RNC was had bought copies of Kenyan airline registries for a 3 year period. 1960-1962. Now why would the RNC do that?
Another question that pertains to the same issue. According to B.O.'s own book his mother flew from Hawaii to Washington state with him when he was 3 weeks old, in 1961.
Anyone familiar with the racial issues of the early 1960's? How would a white w